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	<title>Comments on: Global warming and libertarians</title>
	<link>http://www.isil.org/channels/archives/11891</link>
	<description>A project of the International Society for Individual Liberty</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Erica</title>
		<link>http://www.isil.org/channels/archives/11891#comment-507197</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:58:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.isil.org/channels/archives/11891#comment-507197</guid>
					<description>you suck.... die</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>you suck&#8230;. die
</p>
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		<title>by: Erica</title>
		<link>http://www.isil.org/channels/archives/11891#comment-507196</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.isil.org/channels/archives/11891#comment-507196</guid>
					<description>you suck.... die</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>you suck&#8230;. die
</p>
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		<title>by: Erica</title>
		<link>http://www.isil.org/channels/archives/11891#comment-507198</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.isil.org/channels/archives/11891#comment-507198</guid>
					<description>you suck.... die</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>you suck&#8230;. die
</p>
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		<title>by: ISIL Channels &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Are we at the turning point?</title>
		<link>http://www.isil.org/channels/archives/11891#comment-252736</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:40:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.isil.org/channels/archives/11891#comment-252736</guid>
					<description>[...] Question Earthority! A Project of the ISIL Channels      - Previous post in Default- Previous post in QE Editorial [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[&#8230;] Question Earthority! A Project of the ISIL Channels      - Previous post in Default- Previous post in QE Editorial [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: Roberto</title>
		<link>http://www.isil.org/channels/archives/11891#comment-252726</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.isil.org/channels/archives/11891#comment-252726</guid>
					<description>I will add, if monoculture farmland was treated properly, top soil would build every year and not be in decline. This would be a huge sponge for CO2 and the benefits would far outweigh any global warming considerations, no matter who is correct on this matter of global warming, or cooling. I do know that in Eastern Washington in the 1900s one could grow huge watermelons. County Fair records show this proof, as well, old timers told me of this fact when I was a child, 40 years ago. Today, one cannot grow a watermelon in eastern Washington State. It is too cool. 

As for lakes in Africa being too high in CO2, I don't know. I do know that crops in water like duck weed can fix nitrogen and release oxygen while fixing some carbon and support fish in the lake, and attract ducks. Growing Cattails around the lake perimeter should also fix carbon and the tubers would be a wonderful source of 19% protein, after a fermentation distillation cycle to make local fuel for cooking or transportation. Stripping out the cattails as soon as they are grown and allowing regrowth would remove carbon from the lake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I will add, if monoculture farmland was treated properly, top soil would build every year and not be in decline. This would be a huge sponge for CO2 and the benefits would far outweigh any global warming considerations, no matter who is correct on this matter of global warming, or cooling. I do know that in Eastern Washington in the 1900s one could grow huge watermelons. County Fair records show this proof, as well, old timers told me of this fact when I was a child, 40 years ago. Today, one cannot grow a watermelon in eastern Washington State. It is too cool. </p>
	<p>As for lakes in Africa being too high in CO2, I don&#8217;t know. I do know that crops in water like duck weed can fix nitrogen and release oxygen while fixing some carbon and support fish in the lake, and attract ducks. Growing Cattails around the lake perimeter should also fix carbon and the tubers would be a wonderful source of 19% protein, after a fermentation distillation cycle to make local fuel for cooking or transportation. Stripping out the cattails as soon as they are grown and allowing regrowth would remove carbon from the lake.
</p>
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		<title>by: Roberto</title>
		<link>http://www.isil.org/channels/archives/11891#comment-252299</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 03:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.isil.org/channels/archives/11891#comment-252299</guid>
					<description>I ask those who are concerned about this controversy to consider the CO2 sequestering effect man can have by practicing Permaculture a variation of organic farming that return more carbon to the soil than comes out. Modern monoculture strips minerals and carbon out of the soil by using commercial fertilizer and pesticides that kill the organisms that build carbon and add to topsoil. 

Commercial farming of kelp can also add to oxygen production and alcohol fuel as a by product, while trapping CO2 as a result of man's intelligent action with nature. The profit motive of people awakening to health concerns will drive more expansion of Permaculture and Organic farming. The death of the FRN will reduce the use of commercial fertilizer. More jobs in the fields, less around DC. 

Some Pubs to check out.  http://Metrofarm.com/   http://Permaculture.com/  http://alcoholcanbeagas.com/  http://www.acresusa.com/

I also fail to understand why it is not discussed that the people who promote a tax on Carbon are almost all socialists grasping for more control over everyone's lives, and a CO2 Tax is a very sensible vehicle for draining our lives of even more of our labor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I ask those who are concerned about this controversy to consider the CO2 sequestering effect man can have by practicing Permaculture a variation of organic farming that return more carbon to the soil than comes out. Modern monoculture strips minerals and carbon out of the soil by using commercial fertilizer and pesticides that kill the organisms that build carbon and add to topsoil. </p>
	<p>Commercial farming of kelp can also add to oxygen production and alcohol fuel as a by product, while trapping CO2 as a result of man&#8217;s intelligent action with nature. The profit motive of people awakening to health concerns will drive more expansion of Permaculture and Organic farming. The death of the FRN will reduce the use of commercial fertilizer. More jobs in the fields, less around DC. </p>
	<p>Some Pubs to check out.  <a href='http://Metrofarm.com/' rel='nofollow'>http://Metrofarm.com/</a>   <a href='http://Permaculture.com/' rel='nofollow'>http://Permaculture.com/</a>  <a href='http://alcoholcanbeagas.com/' rel='nofollow'>http://alcoholcanbeagas.com/</a>  <a href='http://www.acresusa.com/' rel='nofollow'>http://www.acresusa.com/</a></p>
	<p>I also fail to understand why it is not discussed that the people who promote a tax on Carbon are almost all socialists grasping for more control over everyone&#8217;s lives, and a CO2 Tax is a very sensible vehicle for draining our lives of even more of our labor.
</p>
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		<title>by: BuildHome &#187; Global warming and libertarians</title>
		<link>http://www.isil.org/channels/archives/11891#comment-244190</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 18:24:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.isil.org/channels/archives/11891#comment-244190</guid>
					<description>[...] Check it out! While looking through the blogosphere we stumbled on an interesting post today.Here&amp;#8217;s a quick excerptSimilarly, the additional CO2 serves to keep infrared radiation from leaving the planet, and it is this trapping effect that is the contributor to global warming. The sources of that heat include: solar radiation, earth’s own internal &amp;#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[&#8230;] Check it out! While looking through the blogosphere we stumbled on an interesting post today.Here&#8217;s a quick excerptSimilarly, the additional CO2 serves to keep infrared radiation from leaving the planet, and it is this trapping effect that is the contributor to global warming. The sources of that heat include: solar radiation, earth’s own internal &#8230; [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: aarathi &#187; Global warming and libertarians</title>
		<link>http://www.isil.org/channels/archives/11891#comment-243985</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 14:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.isil.org/channels/archives/11891#comment-243985</guid>
					<description>[...] Check it out! While looking through the blogosphere we stumbled on an interesting post today.Here&amp;#8217;s a quick excerptSimilarly, the additional CO2 serves to keep infrared radiation from leaving the planet, and it is this trapping effect that is the contributor to global warming. The sources of that heat include: solar radiation, earth’s own internal &amp;#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[&#8230;] Check it out! While looking through the blogosphere we stumbled on an interesting post today.Here&#8217;s a quick excerptSimilarly, the additional CO2 serves to keep infrared radiation from leaving the planet, and it is this trapping effect that is the contributor to global warming. The sources of that heat include: solar radiation, earth’s own internal &#8230; [&#8230;]
</p>
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		<title>by: cls</title>
		<link>http://www.isil.org/channels/archives/11891#comment-237196</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 00:23:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.isil.org/channels/archives/11891#comment-237196</guid>
					<description>I should also note that this claim is absolutely false. &quot;In fact, all data point to the conclusion that the earth is warmer now than at any time in the past several million years. &quot; I have seen scientists who claim it is warmer today than for 400 years and some who say 1,000 years. But Mr. Karlan has wisdom they don't profess and claims it is warmer now than for several million years! He might then explain the discovery reported by the BBC of &quot;fossilised bones of two ancient hippos... found in Norfolk&quot; &quot;said to be more than 450,000 years old&quot;. The BBC notes the fossiles &quot;open a new window on the UK's past in the early Middle Pleistocene when average temperatures were about 2C higher.&quot; They report that the animals come from a time &quot;when Norfolk had a landscape populated by an unusual mixture of familiar plants and animals and more exotic species now found only in the African savannah. Clearly, if today is the warmest it has been for several million years somebody neglected to inform the hippos.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3854461.stm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I should also note that this claim is absolutely false. &#8220;In fact, all data point to the conclusion that the earth is warmer now than at any time in the past several million years. &#8221; I have seen scientists who claim it is warmer today than for 400 years and some who say 1,000 years. But Mr. Karlan has wisdom they don&#8217;t profess and claims it is warmer now than for several million years! He might then explain the discovery reported by the BBC of &#8220;fossilised bones of two ancient hippos&#8230; found in Norfolk&#8221; &#8220;said to be more than 450,000 years old&#8221;. The BBC notes the fossiles &#8220;open a new window on the UK&#8217;s past in the early Middle Pleistocene when average temperatures were about 2C higher.&#8221; They report that the animals come from a time &#8220;when Norfolk had a landscape populated by an unusual mixture of familiar plants and animals and more exotic species now found only in the African savannah. Clearly, if today is the warmest it has been for several million years somebody neglected to inform the hippos.</p>
	<p><a href='http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3854461.stm' rel='nofollow'>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3854461.stm</a>
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		<title>by: cls</title>
		<link>http://www.isil.org/channels/archives/11891#comment-237193</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 00:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.isil.org/channels/archives/11891#comment-237193</guid>
					<description>Point 1: Global warming is real -- well, yes. Climates fluctuate and if one takes the graph he takes it looks dramatic. Less so if you realize the Little Ice Age covers most of that period until the mid 1800s when it ended. But why look at 1,000 years only? Why not 10,000 or 100,000? If you do that the chart would look very different without the dramatic uptick at the end. Because 8000 years ago it was much warmer than it is today.

Arctic fluctuations are also real. NASA said that wind shifts were responsible for the massive decline of the ice sheet during the normal reduction period in the summer. The winds blew ice into warmer waters increasing melting. NASA said this has been going on for around 8 years. On the other hand the ice flow in the Antarctic reached new record highs. Or is global warming not global?

Pointing to thinning ice in some places is cherry picking if one also ignores growing ice sheets in other places. Ice is melting in some parts of Iceland and growing in other parts. Glaciers around the world are often in retreat while a short distance away another glacier is growing. One cause of glacial melt is pressure. If ice builds up the increased pressure melts off ice underneath it quicker. 

The CO2 argument is relatively simplistic because Mr. Karlan looks at water vapor, clouds and CO2. His argument is simplistically naive. If water vapor and clouds are not increasing then only CO2 can be responsible by process of elimination. That argument assumes that all other factors which were excluded from the list are not worth mentioning including the impact of solar fluctuations.

It would seem that with massive and rapid climate change having occurred frequently in the past, long before man even existed, that one would need to explain why those changes took place and exclude all those reason before moving on to the assumption that C02 is responsible. This is especially true as the impact of CO2 is not linear. Doubling CO2 does not double the impact. Each increase has less effect than the previous increase.

We also know that the last major ice age (not the Little Ice Age) ended when the oceans warmed first. CO2 increases followed the warming not preceded them. While humans are releasing C02 is it possible that nature is also releasing more CO2 resulting from the end of the Little Ice Age. Could it be the warming that is responsible for much of the increase in CO2 and not just man?

We also know that for about 10 years now the global temperatures have been stable if not declining. The recent high (which is well below previous natural warming highs) was in 1998 and there has been little since. And a recent study of 600 cities and their temperature increases showed a pattern identical to what the IPCC and others are saying is happening. But when the 15 largest cities were removed from the data the trend was downward temperatures in the others. This would indicate that the adjustments in the climate models to account for the “heat island” effect on temperatures has been too low and needs adjustment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Point 1: Global warming is real &#8212; well, yes. Climates fluctuate and if one takes the graph he takes it looks dramatic. Less so if you realize the Little Ice Age covers most of that period until the mid 1800s when it ended. But why look at 1,000 years only? Why not 10,000 or 100,000? If you do that the chart would look very different without the dramatic uptick at the end. Because 8000 years ago it was much warmer than it is today.</p>
	<p>Arctic fluctuations are also real. NASA said that wind shifts were responsible for the massive decline of the ice sheet during the normal reduction period in the summer. The winds blew ice into warmer waters increasing melting. NASA said this has been going on for around 8 years. On the other hand the ice flow in the Antarctic reached new record highs. Or is global warming not global?</p>
	<p>Pointing to thinning ice in some places is cherry picking if one also ignores growing ice sheets in other places. Ice is melting in some parts of Iceland and growing in other parts. Glaciers around the world are often in retreat while a short distance away another glacier is growing. One cause of glacial melt is pressure. If ice builds up the increased pressure melts off ice underneath it quicker. </p>
	<p>The CO2 argument is relatively simplistic because Mr. Karlan looks at water vapor, clouds and CO2. His argument is simplistically naive. If water vapor and clouds are not increasing then only CO2 can be responsible by process of elimination. That argument assumes that all other factors which were excluded from the list are not worth mentioning including the impact of solar fluctuations.</p>
	<p>It would seem that with massive and rapid climate change having occurred frequently in the past, long before man even existed, that one would need to explain why those changes took place and exclude all those reason before moving on to the assumption that C02 is responsible. This is especially true as the impact of CO2 is not linear. Doubling CO2 does not double the impact. Each increase has less effect than the previous increase.</p>
	<p>We also know that the last major ice age (not the Little Ice Age) ended when the oceans warmed first. CO2 increases followed the warming not preceded them. While humans are releasing C02 is it possible that nature is also releasing more CO2 resulting from the end of the Little Ice Age. Could it be the warming that is responsible for much of the increase in CO2 and not just man?</p>
	<p>We also know that for about 10 years now the global temperatures have been stable if not declining. The recent high (which is well below previous natural warming highs) was in 1998 and there has been little since. And a recent study of 600 cities and their temperature increases showed a pattern identical to what the IPCC and others are saying is happening. But when the 15 largest cities were removed from the data the trend was downward temperatures in the others. This would indicate that the adjustments in the climate models to account for the “heat island” effect on temperatures has been too low and needs adjustment.
</p>
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